In Depth - O.C.

As both a solo artist and part of the revered Diggin’ In The Crates crew, O.C. has been one of the most respected rappers and lyricists ever since he first emerged on the scene with his appearance on Fudge Pudge on Organised Konfuzion’s debut album. His debut album Word Life in 1994 solidified this and he has been releasing stellar albums ever since; from the follow up Jewelz to Oasis with fellow D.I.T.C alumni AG to his last album, the brilliant A New Dawn and so much more. We had the pleasure of talking to O.C. about what he is up to next, why he is taking his time with new music and the reasons why, along with his views on the state the world is in at the moment. We also discussed his vast musical career and life in hip hop including his longevity,  being in D.I.T.C and his memories of the much missed Big L, the making of Word Life and Return Of The Crooklyn Dodgers and so much more in a great chat with a great artist.

Are you working on any new music at the moment that you can tell us about?

At the moment I'm just basically doing what everybody else is doing, man. Trying to figure out what's going on in the world. You know what I'm saying? I can make music at the moment but I don't want to make music that's melancholic. I don't know if that makes sense, but we have to deal with the times that's reflected, but I don't know, man. I just don't want to make any sad music at the moment.   

Have you got anything in the pipeline at all or are you just sort of waiting for the right moment?

Just waiting for the right moment, but I do have a timeline because I turn 50 in May so you know, that's probably going to be my last solo album. Like I said man, I have music. I can write, I can do everything. I just don't want to reflect the time of what's been going on over the past year because everybody went through it too. I'm trying to capture something different and as long as it makes sense to me, that's when I'll start recording.

Have you got ideas for it so far at all?

Well, I mean there’s a lot of things in front of us. For example, everybody always asks, do you miss traveling? Of course, I'm sure everybody who travels misses traveling but the same thing that's going on in New York, in North Carolina is going on in Italy, is going on in London. We’re dealing with the same thing. This is something that's never really happened at the same time; an economic crisis, a pandemic and altogether blatant racism going on. Then you have something that recently happened at the Capitol. These are things that are historical and happening day by day in a big way. I don't think some people are soaking that in. I'm soaking it in - it's like damn, this thing happened in my parents lifetime or my grandparents lifetime, what's going on now?

How do you comprehend what’s gone on in the last year and is continuing to do so this year?

That's my point - It’s hard to. Me and have you heard of the great depression and things that happened in the past but me and you are living testament to something that people are going to talk about a hundred years from now. That’s something most people will not think about. It's like, yo people are going to talk about this more than a hundred years from now. This is something that just never happened all at once. You’ve never had a trifecta in that magnitude. It’s an equal level of experience with everybody around the globe, so it ain't like, this person in this country is being bombed and this is not happening. You’re equal; the pandemic just leveled the playing field.

How are things where you are at the moment?

I moved out of New York last year. I’m down south now but heres the crazy thing; I've been adamant about trying to move out of New York for the past few years and following my intuition, something told me to leave last year and when I left, look what happened!

Do you feel more settled here you’re at right now?

I feel settled for the moment, but like I said, man, it's like one of those movies; it hits the main cities and everybody who's in the country, they feel a backdraft of it as it moves out. I'm starting to see it now a little bit where I’m at cause I'm in the country, but it's not as crazy as the cities obviously.

With everything going on, like you say, it's like a feeling no matter where you are.

Exactly. Like it's the walking dead everywhere, so to speak. No-one's escaping this; rich, poor, black, white, you know what I'm saying? No-one's escaping.

How long do you think before we start to feel anything resembling a normality again, if that's the right word?

Oh man. I don't know. I feel in my gut, things have changed forever obviously, but I just feel like we haven't seen the worst of it yet. I just feel like something else is on our horizon and I don't want it to be. America hasn’t dealt with a lot of things over the years man, and this is probably the time where everything that needs to be addressed; that elephant in the room or just taboo to speak on or whatever is rearing it’s head now.

Obviously, these things have been building up for a while and now it is the time to address these things like you say.

That's why I said for me doing music, you know, I can go in the studio and knock out an album. That's what I do but I wouldn't feel I was doing the justice to the people if I wouldn't really put my all into it, so to speak. I say that to say like, It's easy for me to just look at what you're doing or go through in your day to day or what your family's going through and write about it. That's kind of cheating though cause that's your day to day but if there's something that captures my ingenuity and my imagination and coupled with real life; if that’s not captured all at once, like lightning in a bottle then I think it wouldn't be genuine. I mean, to be honest, man, I ain't on here to promote anybody else but have you heard the new Pharoahe album?

The Th1rt3eN album?

Yeah, man. I heard the album three, four years ago though. I just told him to be careful because dude is extra-ordinary. He took his level of genius with this album. It might go over people's heads, It might not but he stuck me with that when I listened to it, he's my competition again. That's how I look at Hip Hop now even though that's my brother and that album is unfuckwithable!

Do you think that album is a record that is very much relevant with what is going on?

Exactly. There's been things that's been going on, building up over time, just in life, with the human race in general, but I’m like yo, just be careful with that album. There hasn’t been an album I’ve listened to in a long time that gave me goosebumps like that. That took me back to some PE you know - first or second album or KRS One shit! I was blown away by it. Theres a song in particular on his album, I don't remember the title. I'm like, yo, you some other dude, like he's done transcended man!

Would you work with Pharoahe again in some capacity? That would be incredible!

Of course! Actually before the pandemic hit real heavy, I was out in London with them. I did a show in London with them, a surprise pop up in London last year. Then after that, we did Chicago in February and literally the day I got off the plane is when everything shut down after that. But yeah, we definitely working. I haven't had that in a long time with somebody who gave me something to compete for.

On Feeling Free from your last album A New Dawn, you declared that you “stopped being a rapper, in time became an artist”. Do you feel that all your experience and the experience that's going on now has made you a better artist?

Of course! You know that Gavin, you know that. Some people say we shouldn't say it or it’s something that goes unsaid but I believe that the era we come from, there’ll never be an era like it. The artists it produced; the MCs, the producers, the managers, the CEOs it produced is without question, crazy. People don't talk to me too much so to get my aspect on certain things, I'm just reaching in the head. A crew, somebody like Organized Noise or Naughty By Nature; these guys are still killing it. Résumés speak highly about you over time, not what you can do in the moment. It’s easy to make a wave and then disappear. But you know what I'm saying? Here and gone, that's not our era.

That’s why artists like yourself, Pharoahe and so much more can still go all over the globe and still have that fan base.

Exactly. We’re 50 years old and better now, so for us to still do it at that level, today, which is not taking the context with so many younger artists. It's like, yo man, we’re geniuses; ain't nothing else to say.

And what do you credit for your longevity in the music game?

My peers. All of my peers, my era, like I said. It was a big deal to go in the store and pick up a CD or pick up vinyl and other artists going to pick up other artists’ albums to see what your peers are doing, your competition is doing. People take that in the wrong way too but it's it's not a bad thing. It keeps you sharp. Seeing what Wu Tang’s doing, seeing what Nas’ is doing, seeing what Ludacris’ is doing. Just seeing what other people are doing creatively; it sparks you. You can't be on this planet by yourself and just be like, I know everything. It won't mean shit.

You’ve released albums over the years, both solo and collaborative efforts with  AG, Apollo Brown, PF Cuttin and Apathy for starters. Do you like to constantly keep busy when it comes to making music music even if it is just ideas?

For me, at this point, I really have nothing to prove. What people don't understand is that there’s a crop of us that love the music. We just love the music. I don't have to make a dime off of this again. I love the culture. I am the culture. I'm involved with the culture. I was born into the culture. I love the music, man. I love the creative part. I made more money when I wasn't thinking about making money. When I started worrying about bills and things of that nature, that's when the music, it falters a little bit because now you’re doing it for something different, other than what you started for so I don't worry about that at this point. I’m doing it because I want to.

That’s the thing about longevity as well, if you don't love it…

Why even still do it?!

Yeah. With Diggin’ In The Crates, will or have you talked about doing anything again at all?

Nah, everybody is on different parts of the globe, man. Not to say that we couldn't do it, but I don't think at this point. Like I said, we don't have nothing to prove at this stage. It has to be something that's organic or it has to be in specific circumstance that bring us to doing that. I mean, everybody's doing their thing. Show’s doing his thing, Buck’s doing his thing, Finesse is doing his thing, AG, Diamond, everybody.

What are some of your favorite memories with the D.I.T.C crew?

Definitely when L was alive, obviously. I would give everything up to bring him back and I'm sure everybody else would. He was the youngest, not too much younger than me you know, a few years, but he was cocky, man. I miss the cockiness of him talking and making people angry because he can get under your skin. He told Fat Joe, he's gonna bust his ass on the Enemy record in his face. You know what I mean, we used to talk like that to each other, you know? Joe was like, I don't know about that. L was like, I'm a bust yo ass on this joint. I just miss things like that.

Oasis, the album you did with AG, was it fun making that album?

Yeah, it was, Me and A did a song on Bon Appetit called Weed And Drinks. That's when we found that formula because up until that point, me and A never really made joints like the way him and Finesse or Diamond did. When we did that record together, I believe Show was like “oh shit!” like he didn't see that coming and it was A's idea. I drank at the time, that was my thing and I didn't smoke at the time and he did, and he's like, yo, weed and drinks. Buck played the beat and we was in there and we heard it and it was like, yo, we make a match without even trying.

Would you ever do another joint album at all?

I don't know. I mean, it depends on how I feel, it depends on how A feel. A lives overseas so we can actually send files, but that's my brother, man so if can't do it in person, I don't want to do it.

With that album, along with all your other material and the D.I.T.C stuff, It's always triumphant and inspiring. Is that what you aspire to when you create music to start?

I believe that music translates your daily life, how you’re feeling at the moment, how you feeling that year, that month, it's different reflections of everything. If you listen to everything from ‘94 till now; people be like, your new stuff is cool but it ain't Word Life. Of course it's not, that was 1994. I was 20 something years old! I'm just reaching a mature state in my life as a man so the music is not going to be the same, not the way you believe it should be.

Looking back to like Word Life and Jewelz; what are your main memories around that time and when you were first coming out?

I remember doing the first album and a lot of producers wouldn’t mess with me but I don't believe it’s because I wasn't nice. It’s because back then getting on was through relationships and stuff like that. You had to prove yourself, you know what I'm saying? I had to prove myself that that first album. People tend to look at, for example, with somebody like Nas and Illmatic, people don't give Large Professor enough credit, you know what I'm saying? Like he had the relationship with Premier. He had the relationship with Q-Tip. He had the relationship with Pete Rock. Nas ain’t know none of these cats, it was just coupled with his gift and the producers. It created something special. When you saw his project come through, we needed that. We always need that every 10, 20 years; you need a special cat or something that looks special to come through, to spark a changing of the guard or what have you. We need that, so not everybody could have the the same success so to speak as Nas or Jay Z. Some of the greatest Jazz players, probably most people have never heard but a lot of Jazz players who made it commercially, you know, they'll tell you where they got it from.

With how well received Word Life was, did you feel any pressure at all when you were following it up with Jewelz?

Not at all, man. I still felt like people didn't believe, some of my peers but when you’re young, you know, you're not as confident. I mean, there’s confident when a young lady walks past you and there’s confident with a guy does a crossover dribble and you look at him and be like, ‘I want to get to that level’. That's what I felt like - like I still had something to prove, which I didn't because I had Beatminerz, Premier, and D.I.T.C on my album. That’s crazy.

How has the experience of making the Return Of The Crooklyn Dodgers, with Premier, Chubb Rock and Jeru The Damaja?  

I believe I told the story, maybe once or twice, but that was something that they put in Preme’s lab and they put the players together. When Chubb Rock came in the studio, Chubb knocked his rhyme out in,I'm gonna say 10 minutes and left. Chubb talked with the patois sometimes and he was out. Me and Ru looked at each other like ‘oh shit! we'll come back tomorrow and try to figure this out’. That’s why he went first and he was working too, at the same time, so he was like it’s good? We were like it’s good? You must be joking!

What do you want your legacy as an artist to be?

I don't know. I'm sure every artist would say I want my legacy to be the greatest to ever do it, but you’ve got to let history tell that story, man. I don't even consider that legend shit next to my name. There’s legends that I look up to and respect to this day that’s still alive; Caz, Melle Mel, DJ Aladdin, there’s too many legends that’s still here. I always try to tell people, rap is young. I’m older than hip hop, on paper. I’m no legend, my legacy, I don’t know, I couldn’t even tell you.

What have been some of the proudest moments of your career so far?

Being part of being part of a crew that has probably produced a high percentage of the music that people was messing with during the early ‘90s all the way to the mid 2000s. I’m part of D.I.T.C, everybody knows that but I don’t think people understand some of the things musically, original pieces and remixes, that Diggin created and made history with.

Do you have a lyric that people quote to you most when they meet you? I think I know what you’re going to say!

You serious? You know what it is! “ I'd rather be broke and have a whole lot of respect, Its the principle of it, I get a rush when I bust some dope lines I wrote!” I tell them, that was a figure of speech. People were like, I was really broke, but you wasn’t supposed to be! People got mad at me when I met them in person, like shit I wouldn’t be broke!

That’s brilliant man, thank you so much for talking to me, thats been really great and hopefully we'll get some new music from you at some point in the future. Word Life, Jewelz, Oasis, A New Dawn, they’re all classics to me.

Definitely. Same Moon, Same Stars, all that. Matter of fact, my man Mr Krum does all the artwork, he’s from London. He did the Same Moon and the A New Dawn album covers, dude is incredible.

Hopefully you'll be able to come over again too at some point whenever that will be.

How is it over there? Is it locked down?

Yeah, the whole country’s still locked down.

Well, you saw what we went through right, the inauguration and the Capitol. Some of my friends from overseas are like Yo, America ain’t lookin too good! Shit, ain’t never looked that good! We just live here. I ain’t defiling my country but the people who run the motherfucker, come on man. They doing the same shit in Europe though. They all together. They ain’t to different, there’s a regime of motherfuckers together. This is what people don't get. Oh, I'm a Republican, I'm a Democrat. It's like, listen, man, it's part of the same bird. Right wing, left wing, It's on the same animal. It's the same thing.

At least there seems to be some sort of resistance at last on a global scale.

People don’t like to hear it but it has to happen. Something like this has to happen for the people in so called power to understand that if not for the people, you wouldn’t have any power.We give y’all the power, but we got to start taking that shit back and distributing that shit. Yo it’s about to get bad over there and I told you, that's why I'm not making music. I'm I'm ready for war. I live in North Carolina too. I'm in the South. It's ugly over here.

Words by Gavin Brown